[00:00:02]
[CALL TO ORDER]
TO START THE PARKER PLANNING AND CODING COMMISSION MEETING FOR MAY 14TH AT 5 P.M.SO, FIRST OFF, WE HAVE LYNETTE AMAR WHO HAS RESIGNED.
AND SO, DOES THE COUNCIL NEED TO...
MOVE THE ALTERNATES UP OR DO WE PROPOSE? SO YES, MR. CHAIRMAN, THAT WOULD BE TEST, TEST, WORKING.
YES, MR. CHAIRMAN, THAT WOULD BE A CITY COUNCIL DECISION ON THAT, BUT TEMPORARILY YOU CAN, AND I WOULD RECOMMEND THAT YOU APPOINT AN ALTERNATE TO SERVE IN THE VOTING CAPACITY FOR A NIGHT SUCH AS THIS.
WE'LL PUT SUSAN IN THAT SPOT FOR TONIGHT.
OKAY, SO WE HAVE EVERYBODY HERE.
AND WE CAN START WITH PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE.
TO THE REPUBLIC, ONE NATION, INDIVISIBLE, WITH LIBERTY AND JUSTICE FOR ALL.
THIS IS THE TEXAS STATE OF THE WORLD.
I DON'T KNOW WHY I CAN'T HEAR YOU.
[PUBLIC COMMENTS]
THE NEXT THING HERE IN THE LIST ARE PUBLIC COMMENTS.DO WE HAVE ANY PUBLIC COMMENTS THAT WE NEED TO RECORD? OKAY, WE DON'T.
OKAY, ON OUR AGENDA TODAY WE HAVE FOUR ITEMS, BUT ONE OF THEM IS GOING TO BE RESCHEDULED, AND THAT'S ITEM NUMBER TWO, SO WE WILL CROSS THAT OFF THE LIST TONIGHT.
[1. CONSIDERATION AND/OR ANY APPROPRIATE ACTION REGARDING APPROVAL OF THE MEETING MINUTES FOR APRIL 09, 2026.]
FIRST ITEM ON THE AGENDA, CONSIDERATION AND OR INAPPROPRIATE ACTION REGARDING APPROVAL OF THE MEETING MINUTES FOR APRIL 9TH, 2026.DOES EVERYBODY HAVE THEIR MEETING MINUTES? YEAH, THERE'S SOME MEETING MINUTES THERE.
FOR SOME REASON, YOU DIDN'T GET YOURS.
I DIDN'T HAVE ANY COMMENTS ON THE MINUTES.
GIVE EVERYBODY A COUPLE MINUTES TO REVIEW AND SUGGEST ANY COMMENTS.
I MAKE A MOTION FOR ACCEPTANCE OF MEETING MINUTES.
OKAY, WE HAVE A MOTION TO ACCEPT THE MEETING MINUTES AS WRITTEN.
[3. DISCUSS AND CONSIDER CITY COUNCIL’S REFERRAL OF ORDINANCE NO. 201, RELATING TO FIREWORKS AND THE PREVENTION OF FIRES, TO THE PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION FOR REVIEW AND RECOMMENDATION. [2025 0617 CC Review Referral] ]
NEXT ITEM ON THE AGENDA IS TO DISCUSS AND CONSIDER THE CITY COUNCIL'S REFERRAL OF ORDINANCE NUMBER 201 RELATING TO FIREWORKS AND PREVENTION OF FIRES TO THE PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION FOR REVIEW AND RECOMMENDATION.OKAY, SO IN YOUR PACKET WE HAVE A COUPLE OF ITEMS. WE HAVE SOME GRAPHS OF ORDINANCE 201, AND WHAT I WOULD LIKE TO DO HERE, BEFORE WE GET TOO MUCH INTO THIS, I'D LIKE TO ASK EVERYBODY'S OPINION ON A COUPLE OF THINGS.
JUST A COUPLE OF ITEMS THAT I...
SO PRETTY MUCH IN JUST ABOUT ALL THE AREAS AROUND HERE IN INCORPORATED AREAS, THERE'S, YOU KNOW, PRETTY MUCH A BAN ON PERSONAL FIREWORKS.
I THINK WE SAW THAT THE CITY OF JOSEPHINE HAS SOME LIMITED
[00:05:01]
EXCEPTIONS ON JULY 3RD AND JULY 4TH FROM 7 TO 11.NOTHING THAT GOES HIGHER THAN 10 FEET.
OKAY, THAT'S, I THINK THAT'S WHAT WE'VE GOT IN OUR AREA SO FAR.
SO, THE ONE QUESTION I HAVE, YOU KNOW, WE WERE TALKING ABOUT WHAT THE, WHAT OUR DISPLAY SITE RADIUS OR RULE FOR SEPARATION SHOULD BE HOW FAR AWAY, YOU KNOW, 250 FEET, 350, 300, WHATEVER.
AND I THINK MOST OF THAT REALLY PERTAINS TO PROFESSIONAL FIREWORKS DISPLAYS.
AND WHAT I FOUND IS THAT THERE'S A NATIONAL FIRE PREVENTION ASSOCIATION, NFPA RULE FOR SEPARATION THAT EXISTS TODAY.
AND IT HAS TO DO WITH THE 70 FEET PER INCH OF SHELL SIZE RULE.
SO WHEN YOU DO A PROFESSIONAL DISPLAY AND YOU HAVE THE MOTORS, THE MOTORS ARE, YOU KNOW, DIFFERENT SIZES, AND SO WHAT THEY HAVE WRITTEN OUT HERE IS THE 70 FEET PER INCH OF SHELL SIZE.
SO IF YOU HAVE A 3 INCH SHELL SIZE, THAT'S A 210 FOOT RADIUS OF THE DISPLAY SIZE RADIUS THAT YOU NEED THAT YOU NEED AND SEPARATION DISTANCE.
AND THAT INCLUDES, LIKE, THEY CALL IT THE DISCHARGE POINT, THE FALLOUT AREA, AND THEN THE WHOLE SEPARATION DISTANCES.
SO, YOU KNOW, WHEN YOU GET UP TO, LIKE, THE ONES WE HAVE GOING OFF AROUND OUR AREAS ARE 12-INCH SHELLS, PRETTY BIG SHELL.
BUT, YOU KNOW, THAT BECOMES 840 FEET OF DISTANCE.
SO WHAT I'M KIND OF THINKING IS, DOES IT MAKE SENSE FOR US TO ADOPT...
SOMETHING LIKE THAT, IT'S KIND OF, YOU KNOW, SOME FOLKS HAVE THOUGHT ABOUT THIS MAYBE AT A DEEPER LEVEL THAN SOME OF US HERE WHERE WE JUST COME UP WITH AN ARBITRARY 250 OR 300 FOOT.
BECAUSE IT DOES SEEM LIKE IF YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE A PROFESSIONAL DISPLAY, MORTARS GOING OFF, THAT THE SIZE OF THE MORTAR WOULD HAVE SOME BEARING ON HOW FAR AWAY YOU WANT IT FROM.
SO THAT WAS MY MAJOR INPUT RIGHT THERE.
SO MOST OF THE SHOWS THAT COME THROUGH ARE JUST LOW PROFILE, THE BIG 12 INCHERS, WHICH ALSO SOUND RULE ON NFPA.
I DIDN'T LOOK THAT FAR INCHES.
AND MY PROPOSAL, THERE WAS TWO OF THEM ON THERE WAS JUST TO GO WITH 300 FOOT FROM ANY KIND OF COVER.
THE LOW PROFILE, AND THAT'S WHAT SEEMED TO BE THE MATCH FOR OTHER CITY ORDINANCES AS WELL.
WHEN YOU SAY LOW PROFILE, DOES THAT WORK, RANCH? AND I THINK YOU MENTIONED THE LAST TIME THAT WE HAVEN'T HAD ANY ISSUES WITH THE CURRENT.
I JUST RECOMMENDED IT, RECOMMENDED GOING A LITTLE FURTHER BACK.
BUT THEY'RE NOT CHANGING THEIR LAUNCH SITE AND THEY ARE STILL WITHIN NORMAL LIMITS PERFECTLY FINE.
SO YOU'RE SAYING THE CURRENT SITES...
THE LAUNCH SITE THEY PROPOSE TO USE IN THE FUTURE, WOULD SATISFY THE 300 FEET? YES.
BECAUSE THEY'RE USING WHERE THEY PARKED IN FRONT OF US.
DID YOU MENTION A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN LOW PROFILE AND WHAT YOU SAW? I DIDN'T SEE ANYTHING ON THAT, SO THAT COULD LOOK HARDER THAN SEE, BUT I DIDN'T READ ANYTHING ABOUT THAT.
I JUST READ SOMETHING ABOUT THE 70 FOOT PER INCH OF SHELL SIZE WHICH SEEMED TO BE TOP UP.
I GUESS I ALSO HAVE A QUESTION OF WHETHER WE WANT TO ALLOW FIREWORKS FROM NON-SOUTH FORK RANCH LAUNCH.
SO MY RECOMMENDATION FOR THAT IS NO, I DON'T THINK
[00:10:02]
THAT WE SHOULD HAVE FIREWORKS IN THE CITY LIMITS OF PARKER OTHER THAN A SPECIAL EVENT LIKE SOUTH FORK RANCH. AND AS WE MENTIONED BEFORE, IF PARKER FEST BECOMES BIGGER, OR HOWEVER THAT MAY TURN OUT, WE MAY ASK FOR THAT AS WELL AT ONE POINT.NOTHING HAS BEEN SAID ABOUT THAT FOR THE RECORD.
AT SOME POINT WE WANT TO EXCLUDE IT JUST TO SOUTH FORK.
WE DON'T WANT TO WRITE THIS AS A SOUTH FORK ONLY TYPE OF THING, RIGHT? I MEAN, IT JUST NEEDS TO BE GENERAL.
AND IF YOU GUYS DETERMINE THAT YOU WANT TO LODGE SOME FROM THE BACK OF THE LOT BACK HERE OR SOMETHING SOMETIME IN THE FUTURE, YOU KNOW, MEET THE RULES AND YOU OUGHT TO BE ABLE TO DO IT.
YES, DEFINITELY NOT IN THE CITY, AT YOUR HOME, ANYTHING LIKE THAT, JUST BECAUSE YOU HAVE 30 ACRES.
NO, IT'S SPECIAL PERMIT USE ONLY, I THINK IS HOW IT IS.
SO IF SOUTH FORK IS WANTING TO, SOMEBODY'S WEDDING AND THEY WANT TO, AND THEY'RE HOLDING A RECEPTION THERE, SO THEY WOULD HAVE TO APPLY FOR A SPECIAL USE PERMIT FIRST, OR THEY ARE, THEY WOULD STILL NEED TO DO THAT, EVEN THOUGH THEY ARE ALLOTTED 12 PER YEAR, I THINK YOU SAID.
IT STILL HAS TO BE APPROVED BY.
I LIKE THE IDEA OF VERY CONTROLLED AND YOU GUYS GET ADVANCE NOTICE EVERY TIME SOMEBODY'S GOING TO LAUNCH, YOU KNOW, HAVE A FIREWORK SHOW.
AND THAT INCLUDES SPARKLERS AS WELL.
IF YOU NEED FLAMMABLE FIREWORK, WHATEVER YOU WANT TO DEEM IT AS, IT INCLUDES THOSE AS WELL.
THEY HAVE TO GET A PERMIT FOR THAT.
AND IT WOULD BE UP TO WHO TO...
SO IT'LL GO THROUGH THE CITY SECRETARY OR AND WE HAVE A LEGIT FORM.
LIKE 911 CALLS WE GET ON FIREWORKS EVERY, BECAUSE THINGS CERTAINLY HAPPEN.
THEY HAPPEN IN MY NEIGHBORHOOD REGULARLY ON THOSE HOLIDAYS.
I THINK THE POLICE DEPARTMENT WOULD HAVE METRICS ON THAT, BUT WE HAVE NOT.
I COULDN'T EVEN TELL YOU WHEN IT IS BECAUSE PD HANDLES THAT.
UNLESS IT'S ACTIVELY ON FIRE, THEY'RE NOT.
IF WE SAY YOU CAN'T DO IT UNLESS IT'S A COMMERCIAL PERMITTED EVENT, I DON'T THINK THAT MEANS IT'S NOT HAPPENING.
BUT MY QUESTION IS, DO WE HAVE AN ORDINANCE THAT WE'RE NOT EVEN ENFORCING? BECAUSE IT'S HAPPENING AND WE'RE NOT WRITING TICKETS AND OUR OFFICERS HAVE TO SEE IT.
SO WE HAVE, OKAY, SO FROM 1976, OKAY, WE HAVE ORDINANCE 201, AND THEN FROM 1981, THERE'S ORDINANCE 244, I THINK, THAT ADDED ON, KIND OF ADDED ON TO THAT, THAT KIND OF EXPANDED IT.
AND THEN THIS IS ALL, THIS IS CODIFIED IN CHAPTER 93, IS THAT RIGHT? I LOVE IT.
ANYWAY, THE THING ABOUT IT IS, YOU KNOW, I THINK WE'RE EITHER TRYING TO, OR IF IT'S, I MEAN, WHERE IS THE CORRECT PLACE TO CODIFY THIS? DO WE NEED SPECIAL ORDINANCES, OR DO WE JUST NEED IT IN OUR, YOU KNOW? SO, MY RECOMMENDATION TO THE AUDIENCE WOULD BE TO COME UP WITH THE RULES AND REGULATIONS YOU WANT TO SEE IN PLACE THAT YOU WANT TO...
AND THEN WE'LL FIGURE OUT WHERE TO PUT IT.
AND I WILL JUST SPEAK TO THE VOLUME OF CALLS THAT WE TYPICALLY GET ON JULY 4TH, WHAT HAS BEEN...
IF THIS WERE TO HAPPEN IN A SPECIFIC TIME FRAME, AND I WOULD SAY, YOU KNOW, IN OUR
[00:15:05]
CITY YOU PROBABLY GET BOTH EXTREMES.YOU GET THE PEOPLE THAT SAY, OH, I'D LIKE TO SHOOT OFF SOME FIREWORKS, AND YOU GET THE PEOPLE THAT, YOU KNOW, OH, YOU'RE SCARING MY DOG, CATS, ANIMALS, THAT KIND OF THING.
SO, I MEAN, WE'VE GOT ALL THAT.
AND I'M NOT PURPORTING TO BE AN EXPERT ON ANY OF THAT.
BUT I DO KNOW THAT THE ONE EXCEPTION I FOUND WAS IN THE CITY OF JOSEPHINE.
HAS ANYONE READ THIS? I HAVE NOT READ IT.
OKAY, SO IT SAYS, OKAY, EXCEPTIONS.
THESE ARE THE EXCEPTIONS, BLAH, TOY PISTOLS, TOY CANES, TOY GUNS ARE SIMILAR DEVICES.
FIREWORKS INCLUDING 1.3G FIREWORKS POSSESSED FOR THE PURPOSE OF USE IN A PUBLIC DISPLAY BY, OH, THAT'S THE LICENSED ONES, OKAY.
PROVIDED THAT NO BURN BAN IN EFFECT FIREWORKS MAY BE POSSESSED, SET OFF, IGNITED, DISCHARGED, AND EXPLODED OR BURNED DURING THE FOLLOWING TIMES.
FROM JULY 3RD, 7PM TO 11PM, JULY 4TH, 7PM TO 11PM, THE EXCEPTIONS SHALL BE SUBJECT TO THE FOLLOWING.
EXCEPTIONS SHALL NOT APPLY TO ANY FIREWORK THAT TRAVELS MORE THAN 10 FEET IN THE AIR.
YOU MUST HAVE A WATER SOURCE AND FIRE EXTINGUISHER SHALL BE ACCESSIBLE WITHIN 25 FEET OF THE DISCHARGE AREA.
NO EXCEPTION SHALL APPLY TO ALLOW DISCHARGE OF FIREWORKS ON PUBLIC OR PRIVATE ROAD.
IT SHALL BE UNLAWFUL FOR ANY PERSON TO BLOCK A PUBLIC OR PRIVATE ROAD FOR THE PERSON DISCHARGING FIREWORKS.
THAT'S JUST, YOU KNOW, THAT'S THE ONE LITTLE BLIP OF EXCEPTION THAT I WAS ABLE TO QUICKLY FIND.
NOW, WAS THAT FOR THE COUNTY? I KNOW IN THE COUNTY IT'S DIFFERENT.
WELL, SO THERE'S UNINCORPORATED AREAS, WHICH IS, YOU KNOW, NOT WHAT WE'RE, I DON'T THINK WE'RE TALKING ABOUT.
THIS IS THE, ACTUALLY THE CITY OF JOSEPHINE.
THAT IS RARE FOR A CITY TO MAKE AN EXCEPTION FOR FIREWORKS.
I DON'T FIND IT TO BE COMPLETELY UNREASONABLE, BUT I WOULD...
WE'LL REFER TO OUR FIRE CHIEF.
THE PROBLEM IS, THE PROBLEM IS WE MAY HAVE THAT IN MORE ALREADY.
YOU'RE NOT GOING TO, IF YOU HAVE 50 POLICE OFFICERS, LITTLE KIDS WHO ARE...
FORMING A SMALL GROUP TO HASH OUT THE LANGUAGE, THAT DIDN'T HAPPEN.
YEAH, I WAS TIED UP A LITTLE BIT BY THAT.
DIDN'T COME UP WITH ANY LANGUAGE.
AGAIN, WE HAVE PROGRESS RUNNING OFF OF MY NEIGHBORHOOD, WHICH IS IN NORTHWEST PART OF PARKER.
NOT ONLY AROUND US, BUT SITTING IN PLANO AND MURPHY, WHICH IS RIGHT THERE BY US.
I CAN TELL YOU THERE'S GUNSHOT AND FIREWORKS.
BUT I GUESS WE'VE NEVER HAD ANY FIRES IN THAT REGARD WITH THE FIREWORKS SETTING UP.
ANY FIRES AROUND US? NOT IN A LONG TIME.
SO IS THERE ANYTHING MAJOR THAT THE BODY'S SEEING THAT THEY WOULD LIKE TO BE CORRECTED? YOU TWEAKED WITH JUSTIN.
I THINK THAT'S KIND OF WHAT I WAS GETTING TO, BECAUSE I JUST WANTED TO BRING UP A FEW MINOR POINTS AND JUST TO SEE WHAT EVERYBODY THOUGHT ABOUT THAT.
YOU KNOW, I THINK JOE AND I NEED TO CONNECT.
I'VE BEEN KIND OF WAYLAID A LITTLE BIT FROM GETTING MY LEG OPERATED ON, BUT I THINK REALLY JOE AND I SHOULD GO AND COME UP WITH SOME PROPOSED TEXT AND THEN DETERMINE WHERE 201, 244, CHAPTER 93, WHATEVER IT IS, WE FIGURE OUT WHERE WE NEED TO PUT THIS TO GET RID OF A LOT OF DIFFERENT PLACES.
IS OUR GOAL TO HAVE JUST, IT'S TO HAVE ONE RULE, RIGHT? YEAH.
YEAH, WE WANT TO HAVE ONE DOCUMENT OF THIS, RIGHT? YEAH, YEAH.
[00:20:03]
I MEAN, BECAUSE IT SEEMS LIKE WE HAVE MOST OF THE PIECES OF WHAT WE NEED IN OUR ORDINANCES.IT'S JUST A LITTLE BIT FRAGMENTED.
SO UNLESS THERE'S SOME OTHER BIG PIECE THAT SOMEONE THINKS IS MISSING, I THINK WE JUST WILL GO AND KIND OF CREATE A NEW OUTLINE AND CONSOLIDATE.
AND THEN TO TOUCH ON THE FIRE PITS, I KNOW THAT'S BEEN A HUGE TOPIC.
DID YOU REVIEW THAT? YEAH, I HAVE A PIECE.
THE THING THAT I REMEMBER THINKING AT THE TIME...
WHAT WAS THAT? WHAT WAS THAT? SO THERE'S TWO DRAFTS THAT LOOK SIMILAR.
AND THEN THERE'S ONE THAT'S BLANK.
THE ONE THAT DOES NOT HAVE AN ORDINANCE NUMBER ON IT...
FOR FIRE PITS, THAT'S THE ONE THAT I WOULD LIKE TO.
THE REASON BEING IT SPECIFIES WHAT NEEDS TO BE DONE.
TONIGHT, IF YOU WANT TO GO TO LOWE'S AND GET THE MATERIAL, YOU CAN GO BUILD A THREE-FOOT IN DIAMETER, TWO-FEET HIGH, AND YOU'RE SET.
THE ORDINANCE HAS IT IN PLACE.
YOU DO NOT HAVE TO COME DO THAT WITH ANOTHER CITY.
IN DISTANCE TO A BUILDING? SO THAT IS ON THERE.
I PUT 300 FEET OF INFRASTRUCTURE.
WHERE IS THAT? THAT'S AT THE TOP.
I THINK I'M LOOKING AT THAT ONE.
SO IF SOMEONE WANTS TO PUT IT IN THE MIDDLE OF THEIR ACRE BACKYARD, THEY CAN DO THAT UNDER THE CITY.
ARE YOU REFERRING TO THIS THING THAT SAYS FIRE PITS? YES.
OKAY, BUT THE BURN BAN, OPEN BURNING IS PROHIBITED.
OKAY, FIRE PITS, NOT OPEN BURNING.
HOW MANY TIMES HAVE YOU GOTTEN CALLED FOR SOMEBODY BURNING A STEAK? BURNING A STICK? A STEAK.
YOU SURE? OKAY, WELL, IF, UM, I THINK THEN LET'S, LET'S KIND OF TABLE THIS.
FOR TONIGHT AND NEXT TIME WE'LL HAVE SOMETHING WRITTEN UP HERE.
I DO WANT TO SAY, AS WE MENTIONED LAST TIME, FIREWORKS SEASON IS COMING UP.
WE WANT TO HAVE SOMETHING IN PLACE MID-JUNE, BECAUSE THEY'RE GOING TO START OPENING THE FACILITY FAIRLY QUICKLY.
WELL, ARE WE MEETING EVERY TWO WEEKS NOW? THAT'S CORRECT.
TWO WEEKS FROM NOW WE'D HAVE SOMETHING AND THEN FOLLOWING THAT IT WOULD GO TO THE FIRST COUNCIL MEETING AND AFTER THAT ASSUMING A 50 AGENDA.
AND I AM WILLING TO MEET WITH YOU, NEEDED, WHOEVER IT IS, ONE ON ONE, COME TO THE DISC AND GO FROM THERE.
OKAY, SO DO WE HAVE ANYTHING ELSE THEY'D LIKE TO ADD BEFORE WE MOVE ON? OKAY, THE NEXT ITEM IS
[4. DISCUSS AND CONSIDER CITY COUNCIL’S REFERRAL OF CHAPTER 153 REGARDING SIGNS TO THE PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION FOR REVIEW AND RECOMMENDATION. [2025 0401 CC Review Referral, 2025 0724 P&Z 1st Review, 2025 0807 P&Z 2nd Review, 2025 0904 P&Z 3rd Review, 2026 0108 P&Z 4th Review and 2026 0312 P&Z 5th Review, 2026 0409 P&Z 6th Review.] ]
TO DISCUSS AND CONSIDER THE CITY COUNCIL'S REFERRAL OF CHAPTER 153 REGARDING SIGNS TO THE PLAINS AND THE COMMISSION FOR REVIEW AND RECOMMENDATION FOR THE SEVENTH TIME.[00:25:10]
BOOM SO I THINK THE LAST DISCUSSION WE HAD THIS IS SOMEWHAT COME UP BECAUSE OF THE CHURCH ACROSS THE STREET RIGHT AND THE QUESTION IS FOR ME PERSONALLY IS WHAT DO WE REALLY NEED TO DO AND WHAT DO WE ACTUALLY WANT IN THE CITY OF PARKER AND WE HAVE RESIDENTS THAT ARE PRETTY DIVIDED ON COMMERCIAL, FOR EXAMPLE, AND WHETHER WE HAVE COMMERCIAL, TO WHAT EXTENT WE HAVE COMMERCIAL, AND I'M KIND OF PUTTING THE CHURCH IN THE COMMERCIAL BUCKET FOR THE MOMENT.THAT'S REALLY WHERE THIS SIGN IS PREDOMINANT, LIKE A LIGHTED SIGN WOULD PREDOMINANTLY BE USED, UNLESS I'M NOT THINKING OF IT THE RIGHT WAY.
LIKE, I CAN'T IMAGINE SOMEBODY WANTS TO PUT A BIG LIGHTED SIGN IN THE FRONT OF THEIR HOUSE, FOR EXAMPLE.
I MEAN, MAYBE YOU DO, RUSSELL.
HOW DID YOU KNOW? YOUR FACIAL EXPRESSION SAID IT ALL.
BUT THAT'S WHAT WE WERE KIND OF DEBATING LAST TIME, RIGHT? RIGHT.
YEAH, AND I THINK, I MEAN, I'VE BROUGHT THIS UP SEVERAL TIMES, AND THAT IS, YOU KNOW, WE'RE ENTERING A DIGITAL AGE, AND SO TO ME IT'S NOT SO MUCH, IS THE SIGN ELECTRONIC? IT'S MORE, IS THE SIGN A NUISANCE FOR SOME REASON? SO, YOU KNOW, IF I HAVE THE UNITED METHODIST CHURCH SIGN OUT FRONT THAT HAS BRIGHT WHITE LIGHTS ON IT AT NIGHT, YOU KNOW, OKAY, THAT'S LIGHTED UP AND EVERYTHING.
IF I HAVE THE SAME THING THAT'S ELECTRONIC THAT'S BACKLIT, YOU KNOW, WHAT'S, AND IT'S RED AND GREEN AND BLUE, WHAT, YOU KNOW, WHERE'S THE DIFFERENTIATION? NOW, AND THIS IS WHERE I GET TO, WHERE IF IT'S FLASHING AND TWINKLING AND, YOU KNOW, BURNING YOUR EYES WHEN YOU'RE DRIVING BY, YOU KNOW, MAYBE THAT'S A NUISANCE.
THE SAME THING IF YOU HAVE IT LIT UP WITH WHITE LIGHTS THAT WERE FLASHING OR, YOU KNOW, LIGHTS, YOU KNOW, THAT CHANGE COLOR AND ALL THAT KIND OF STUFF, YOU KNOW, IS THAT WHAT WE'RE...
IS THAT KIND OF WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT? SO, I'M TRYING TO DELINEATE BETWEEN WHAT WE'RE JUST SAYING, LIGHTED SIGNS, AND SIGNS THAT ARE A NUISANCE FOR SOME REASON, AND WE NEED TO DEFINE WHAT THAT IS.
I WAS KIND OF COMING FROM THE PERSPECTIVE, DO WE WANT THEM AT ALL? BECAUSE IF YOU DON'T WANT THEM AT ALL, IT'S EASY, RIGHT? THEN YOU JUST SAY THEY'RE NOT ALLOWED.
OR IF WE WANT THEM, DO WE WANT THEM ON A LIMITED USE BASIS, AND WHAT WOULD THAT LIMITED USE BASIS BE? AND THEN FROM THERE, IF THERE'S A LIMITED USE BASIS, THEN YOU HAVE TO DELINEATE WHAT THAT MEANS.
DOES THAT MAKE SENSE, OR AM I NOT THINKING OF IT THE RIGHT WAY? YEAH, I MEAN, YOU COULD SAY, YOU KNOW, NO SIGNS AT ALL, OKAY? AND AGAIN, I GET BACK TO, YOU KNOW, WE HAVE WELCOME TO...
WELCOME TO PARKER MONUMENT SIGNS THAT COME INTO THE, YOU KNOW, THAT'S COMMERCIAL? WHAT IS THAT? LIMITED USE.
THAT'S CITY? YOU KNOW, I DON'T KNOW, BUT I'M JUST SAYING THAT WE HAVE, YOU KNOW, SOME OF THOSE THINGS, THEY'RE LIT UP, OKAY, THAT'S FINE.
SOME OF THE SUBDIVISIONS, YOU KNOW, HAVE SOME MONUMENTS OUTSIDE THAT HAVE SOME LIGHT ON THEM.
ARE THOSE SIGNS, YOU KNOW? I MEAN, WHAT ARE WE, YOU KNOW, AND SO I'M JUST TRYING TO MAKE SOME.
I'M TRYING TO COME UP WITH SOMETHING TO ME THAT JUST MAKES REASONABLE SENSE, THAT IS NOT JUST AN OUTRIGHT BAN OF SCIENCE.
AND I'M NOT SUGGESTING THAT THAT'S WHAT WE DO.
GARY, DO WE HAVE EXISTING LAWS REGARDING LIGHTS THAT ARE TOO BRIGHT? BECAUSE I RECALL THEY WERE PUTTING LIGHTS...
OKAY, SO MAYBE WE WOULD HANDLE SIGNAGE THAT'S ALREADY TOO BRIGHT, OR, I MEAN, DOES THAT APPLY TO LIKE THE MONUMENT SIGNS THAT THE NEIGHBORHOODS DO? IS THAT THE WAY YOU LOOK AT THAT, OR HOW DO YOU LOOK AT THAT? NO.
IT WAS NOT, RIGHT? LANGUAGE IS ONLY ABOUT, HOW IS IT? THE MONUMENT SIGNS WOULD BE SOMETHING THAT WOULD BE APPROVED, THEN IT'S ACCEPTED.
WHAT IS THE LANGUAGE IN OUR CODE THAT RESTRICTS?
[00:30:04]
AS FAR AS THE LIGHTING, IT HAS TO BE BALANCED LIGHTING, AND IT HAS TO BE A LEGAL PROPERTY.HOW IS THE ONE LUMEN ARRIVED AT? I MEAN, HOW BRIGHT IS ONE LUMEN? IT IS NOT.
I'VE DONE A LITTLE RESEARCH ON THIS.
I MEAN, ACTUALLY, MEASURING LIGHT IS NOT TOO TOUGH OF A THING TO DO.
IT'S ON THE LIGHT BULB ITSELF, TOO.
SO I THINK WHEN THIS TOPIC FIRST CAME UP, THE WAY WE WERE THINKING ABOUT IT IS THAT WE WOULD REQUIRE EVERYONE WHO WANTS A LIT SIGN OR ELECTRONIC SIGN TO APPLY FOR A PERMIT FOR IT.
AND SO IT WOULD BE DECIDED ON A CASE-BY-CASE BASIS.
AND I GUESS THE CITY COUNCIL DIDN'T LIKE THAT.
DO WE KNOW THAT FOR A FACT? WELL, IT GOT KICKED BACK TO US, SO...
BUT DO WE KNOW IF THAT'S WHY IT GOT KICKED BACK? I THINK THE CITY AND MAYOR CAN SAY TO THIS.
I THINK THE THINKING IS THAT YOU WANT SOME...
SOME GUIDELINES ON EXACTLY WHAT WE SHOULD ALLOW AND NOT ALLOW, RIGHT? SOME STATES, WHAT IS ALLOWED AND WHAT IS NOT ALLOWED.
OUR CURRENT RULES DO NOT ALLOW FOR ELECTRONIC SIGNS, PERIOD.
SO THE FIRST DECISION TO MAKE IS, SHOULD THEY BE ALLOWED? IF YOU'RE GOING TO ALLOW THEM, UNDER WHAT CIRCUMSTANCES? SHOULD THEY BE...
JUST ON SAY PARKER ROAD AND HOGUE ROAD, SHOULD THEY BE ALLOWED, IF RUSSELL WANTS TO PUT AN ELECTRONIC SIGN IN HIS FRONT YARD THAT SAYS RUSSELL LIVES HERE, SHOULD HE BE ALLOWED TO DO THAT? WHAT ARE THE PARAMETERS? THEN I THINK Y'ALL BROUGHT UP A GOOD POINT IN TERMS OF THE LIGHTING.
IS IT A NUISANCE? HOW FAR DOES IT GO? THOSE ARE ALL DECISIONS THAT HAVE TO BE CONSIDERED.
SHOULD THERE BE DIFFERENT REQUIREMENTS FOR COMMERCIAL AREAS, IF YOU WILL, AND RESIDENTIAL? AS YOU'VE NOTED IN OUR MONUMENT SIGNS, THEY ARE NOT LIT, THE SIGN ITSELF.
THEY HAVE, WHAT WOULD YOU CALL THAT? PROJECTED LIGHTING.
BLOOD LIGHTS THAT AIM AT THEM.
I MEAN, THEY'RE LIT UP SIGNS BY HAVING, YOU KNOW...
SOMETHING BUT I BUT BUT WITH THAT TECHNICALLY THEY'RE REFLECTING LIGHT, OKAY. SO, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT REFLECTED LIGHT.
WHAT COLOR IS IT? HOW BRIGHT IS IT? YOU KNOW, ALL THAT.
WHETHER LIGHT COMES FROM THE REFLECTING OF THE WHITE LIGHT, WHICH IS A COMBINATION OF ALL THE DIFFERENT SPECTRUM OF LIGHT, OR WHETHER IT'S INDIVIDUAL LEDS, WHICH ARE VERY NARROW SPECTRUM LIGHTS, THEY'RE ALL LIGHTS.
THE ONE CONCERN THERE IS ABOUT REQUIRING A VARIANCE IS IF IT IS A CHURCH THAT HAS REQUESTED AN ELECTRIC SIGN, NOT ALL CHURCHES HAVE ENOUGH MONEY TO GO AFTER A VARIANCE BECAUSE IT IS AN EXPENSIVE PROCESS.
YEAH, WE JUST WANT TO HAVE THE RULES.
I THINK WE JUST NEED TO HAVE THE RULES THAT MAKE SENSE IN THIS DAY AND AGE.
I DO THINK THAT LIKE THINKING ABOUT WHERE YOU LIMIT IT TO, LIKE NEIGHBORHOOD.
OUTSIDE OF A MONUMENT SIGN AND WHATEVER THOSE RULES NEED TO BE, VERSUS A MAIN THOROUGHFARE LIKE PARKER ROAD.
THERE'S A LOT OF UNDEVELOPED LAND YET ON PARKER ROAD.
THAT IS WHERE THE CHURCH SIGN IS, VERSUS PUTTING IT INSIDE A NEIGHBORHOOD.
SO RIGHT NOW AT THE ENTRANCE TO NEIGHBORHOODS AND DEVELOPMENTS, I THINK THERE ARE LIT MONUMENT SIGNS, RIGHT? A LOT OF THEM ARE.
HOW DO WE DECIDE THEY'RE OKAY? THOSE AREN'T, THOSE AREN'T LIGHTED.
YEAH, IT'S LIKE LANDSCAPE LIGHTING.
LANDSCAPE LIGHTING THAT'S PROJECTED ONTO THESE SIGNS.
VARIANCE OR PERMIT OR ANYTHING?
[00:35:03]
NO.SO DOES THAT MEAN IF I CAN PUT ONE UP LIKE THAT IN FRONT OF MY HOUSE? YEAH.
RIGHT NOW? SO WE COME IN WITH MORE RULES THAT SAY YOU CAN.
OKAY, SO PUT A SIGN INSIDE CITY OF PARKER.
LET'S SAY I HAVE THIS ENTRYWAY TO MY HOUSE.
IN THE ENTRYWAY TO MY HOUSE, I PUT A PIECE OF GRANITE, AND ON THAT PIECE OF GRANITE I PUT, THIS IS RANCHO CORRECTO, OKAY? AND THEN I LIGHT THAT UP.
NOW, OKAY, IT'S A LIGHTED SIGN, RIGHT? BUT IT'S NOT BOTHERING ANYONE.
AND I'M JUST SAYING THAT BECAUSE IT'S THE SAME THING IF YOU GO INTO A SUBDIVISION THAT HAS A SIGN THAT SAYS, YOU KNOW...
WELCOME TO XYZ SUBDIVISION, AND THEY HAVE IT LIT UP.
WE DO WANT THOSE, RIGHT, SO PEOPLE CAN FIND THEIR WAY.
BUT IF YOU LIVE NEXT TO ME AND YOU HAVE IT IN FRONT OF YOUR HOUSE, I MAY HAVE A PROBLEM, DEPENDING ON HOW BRIGHT IT IS.
IF MY SECURITY LIGHT COMES ON IN THE MIDDLE OF THE NIGHT AND SHINES IN YOUR BEDROOM, I CAN IMAGINE THAT MIGHT...
THAT MIGHT NOT BE ANY GOOD EITHER.
AND THAT'S THE SAME, IT'S THE SAME THING.
IS IT A NUISANCE, RIGHT? I THINK THERE'S A BIG DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE LANDSCAPE LIGHTING SHINING ON SOMETHING TO SHOW KING'S CROSSING, WHITESTONE, SOUTHBRIDGE, WHATEVER THE NEIGHBORHOOD MAY BE, VERSUS A BACKLIT COMMERCIAL, WHICH IS, I THINK, I MEAN, IT'S SUPER EASY TO GET CAUGHT UP IN THE LEDERHOSEN OF WHAT IT IS WE'RE TRYING TO DO, BUT...
I THINK THIS IS REALLY BEING DRIVEN BY THE FACT THAT THE CHURCH IS ASKING FOR THE ABILITY TO GET A NEW SIGN, AND TODAY THE ANSWER IS NO BECAUSE THEY'RE NOT ALLOWED.
NO, TODAY THE ANSWER IS A VARIANCE.
A VARIANCE BECAUSE IT'S NOT ALLOWED.
YEAH, SO WE WANT TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO DO THIS SO WE DON'T HAVE TO HAVE VARIANCES AND WE HAVE EASILY UNDERSTANDABLE RULES AND WE ARE POSED FOR THE 20TH, YOU KNOW, WE'RE IN THE 21ST CENTURY.
I WOULD STILL LIKE TO HAVE A VARIANCE.
AND WE DON'T GET ENOUGH REQUESTS FOR THESE TO, IN MY OPINION, JUSTIFY CHANGING THE ORDINANCES FOR IT.
AND IF THEY WANT ONE, THE PROCESS IS THERE FOR THE VARIANCE.
IT'S JUST THAT, YOU KNOW, VARIANCES ARE...
YEAH, AND WHAT I'M JUST SAYING IS THAT LIGHTED SIGNS ARE NOT GOING TO GO AWAY AND THEY'RE GOING TO BECOME MORE PREVALENT IN MY OPINION BECAUSE BECAUSE ALMOST EVERYTHING IS GOING TO BE ONLY BE THIS LED RIGHT BUT THE CITY OF PARKER IS NOT YOUR NORMAL PLACE WELL YOU DON'T HAVE COMMERCIAL ACTIVITY THAT WE'RE YEAH BUT I'M SAYING IS THAT WE OUGHT TO HAVE WE OUGHT TO HAVE SOMETHING THAT'S WRITTEN DOWN THAT SAYS WHAT WE THINK WE DON'T WE DON'T ALLOW IT YEAH THAT'S WHAT WE THINK AND IF YOU WANT SIGNS YOU GET A VARIANCE OKAY IS THAT I MEAN THERE'S A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE LEFT AND RIGHT SIDE.
THE LIGHT OF SIGN IS, THERE IS NO VARIANCE EVEN REQUIRED FOR LIGHT OF SIGN.
OKAY, SO HERE'S WHAT I WANT SOMEONE TO EXPLAIN TO ME.
IF I HAVE A SIGN THAT I'M SHINING LIGHT ON AND IT SAYS SOMETHING, OKAY, AND IT JUST STAYS THERE, AND I HAVE...
A SIGN THAT'S BACKLIT THAT HAS WHITE LETTERS THAT SAYS THE SAME THING.
TELL ME WHAT THE DIFFERENCE REALLY IS.
SOMEBODY PLEASE EXPLAIN TO ME TECHNICALLY WHAT THE DIFFERENCE IS IN THE WAY LIGHT IS COMING BACK AND HITTING MY EYES.
I'M GOING TO SAY IT IN MY OWN WORDS BECAUSE I'M NOT LIKE A LOT...
I MEAN, I'VE READ DAWN DEEP ON DARK SKY FOR A VARIETY OF REASONS.
BUT WHEN YOU'RE DRIVING DOWN THE ROAD AND YOU SEE A LIGHT, THERE'S A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN A LANDSCAPE TYPE LIGHT, OR IN SOME CASES MAYBE IT'S MORE OF A FLOOD LIGHT, LIGHTING A SIGN THAT SAYS WELCOME TO PARKER, OR A STREET SIGN, OR A NEIGHBORHOOD SIGN, VERSUS A SIGN THAT REQUIRES THAT THE SIGN ITSELF NEEDS ELECTRICAL POWER FOR YOU TO BE ABLE TO READ IT.
[00:40:01]
DIFFERENCE IS ELECTRONIC SIGNS CAN BE DYNAMIC AND CAN CHANGE.AND IT ATTRACTS MORE ATTENTION AND IT'S A SAFETY ISSUE.
SO I THINK THAT'S THE BIGGEST DIFFERENCE BETWEEN A MONUMENT SIGN OR A STREET SIGN THAT'S LIT.
SO NOW YOU'RE HITTING ON THE REAL ASPECTS OF WHAT THE SIGN, WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT.
BECAUSE TO ME, IF YOU HAVE A SIGN THAT SAYS SOMETHING THAT'S BACKLIT THAT JUST SAYS IT, AND JUST SITS THERE, AND YOU HAVE ONE THAT YOU'RE SHINING LIGHT ON, AND IT REFLECTS LIGHT ON YOU AND SAYS THE SAME THING, THAT'S NOT WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT.
WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT IS SOMETHING THAT'S CHANGING, OR THAT IS FLASHING, OR...
SOMEHOW IS GETTING YOUR ATTENTION SOME WAY THAT YOU DON'T LIKE.
OR IT'S BOTHERING YOU OR SOMETHING.
SO I'M, LIKE I SAY, I'M JUST TRYING TO HAVE EVERYBODY EXPLAIN TO ME WHAT IT IS, WHAT IT IS, IT'S KIND OF LIKE, YOU KNOW, DO YOU NOT LIKE A PURPLE HOUSE BECAUSE YOU JUST DON'T LIKE THE COLOR PURPLE? TELL ME WHAT IT IS THAT REALLY IS THE DIFFERENCE.
BECAUSE IF I'M LOOKING AT THIS SIGN THAT'S LIT WITH LANDSCAPE LIGHTING, AND I CAN MEASURE IT, IT'S 400 LUMENS, AND I CAN HAVE ONE THAT'S AN LED SIGN, THAT'S A WHITE SIGN, AND I CAN MEASURE IT'S 400 LUMENS.
THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE EXCEPT THE WAY IT'S LIT.
SO WHAT I'M TRYING TO ASK FOR IS EXPLAIN TO ME WHAT THOSE ASPECTS ARE, WHAT THOSE VARIABLES ARE, THAT MAYBE WE NEED TO TALK ABOUT SO THAT WE CAN PUT THOSE IN WRITING.
WELL, THAT'S, I JUST EXPLAINED IT TO YOU.
AND HOW DO YOU PUT RESTRICTIONS ON THE AMOUNTS OF CHANGE THESE ELECTRONIC SIGNS CAN HAVE? I MEAN, THAT'S JUST REALLY HARD.
IN MY MIND, HOW DO YOU? WELL, YOU CAN SAY IT CANNOT BE A SCROLLING SIGN.
OKAY? YOU CAN SAY THAT IT CAN'T BE A FLASHING SIGN.
WHAT IF I HAVE A SIGN WHERE I GO OUT EACH WEEK AND I GO PUT THE LETTERS IN IT, AND IT'S A BOX, AND IT'S LIT UP WITH WHITE LIGHTS OR WHATEVER, AND IT SAYS, COME VISIT OUR CHURCH FOR EASTER.
YEAH, YOU KNOW WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT, RIGHT? THE DIFFERENCE IS, WELL, YOU CAN'T CHANGE THAT EVERY FIVE SECONDS, RIGHT? YOU GO OUT THERE ONCE A WEEK AND YOU PUT THE LETTERS UP.
AGAIN, I'M JUST TRYING TO GET EVERYBODY TO KIND OF THINK THROUGH WHAT IT IS THAT PEOPLE DON'T LIKE ABOUT IT.
CAN I JUST SAY, I THINK, DO WE WANT TO CHANGE THE CURRENT ORDINANCE AT ALL OR NOT? BECAUSE EVERY POINT THAT YOU'RE MAKING IS CONTINGENT UPON THE FACT THAT WE WANT TO CHANGE WHAT WE CURRENTLY HAVE.
I PERSONALLY, I MEAN, I FEEL FOR THE CHURCH, OKAY, BUT I DON'T THINK WE SHOULD CHANGE THE, MY PERSONAL OPINION IS I DON'T THINK WE SHOULD CHANGE THE ORDINANCE FOR ONE ENTITY, IS MY PERSONAL OPINION.
BECAUSE IT OPENS THE DOOR TO A LOT OF OTHER THINGS FROM A COMMERCIAL PERSPECTIVE THAT THE CITY HASN'T EVEN DECIDED WE WANT YET.
AND IT'S A VERY MIXED FROM THE CITIZENS IN TERMS OF WHAT IT IS WE WANT.
BUT IF WE NOW WRITE AN ORDINANCE, IF WE CHANGE THE ORDINANCE TO SAY IT'S NOW ALLOWED, THEN YOU'RE INVITING A WHOLE DIFFERENT DIALOGUE, I THINK.
AND I'M NOT SAYING WE SHOULDN'T HAVE THE DIALOGUE, BECAUSE WE DO HAVE TO SOLVE THE COMMERCIAL-NO-COMMERCIAL SITUATION.
BUT I DON'T KNOW THAT WE ARE NOT PUTTING THE CART BEFORE THE HORSE.
OKAY, AND I'M JUST TRYING TO GET SOMETHING THAT'S CURRENT AND NOT 19TH CENTURY THINKING.
BUT, YOU KNOW, THERE'S, YOU KNOW, IF WE DIDN'T HAVE ELECTRICITY, WHAT WOULD WE BE DOING IN THE 1800S, RIGHT? I MEAN, SO I'M JUST TRYING TO, AGAIN, I DON'T REALLY CARE BECAUSE I DON'T, YOU KNOW, I'M NOT LIGHTING UP A...
THIS WEEK, BUT I'M JUST GETTING EVERYBODY TO KIND OF THINK ABOUT THIS AND YOU KNOW, IF WE'RE GOING TO CHANGE IT, WE NEED TO CHANGE IT SO IT MAKES SENSE FOR THIS CENTURY.
I AGREE THAT IF WE'RE GOING TO CHANGE IT, WE NEED TO BE PROGRESSIVE ABOUT THE WAY THAT WE CHANGE IT.
BUT I THINK THE FIRST QUESTION IS, ARE WE GOING TO CHANGE IT? OKAY, AND IF EVERYBODY'S, YOU KNOW, I MEAN, I'M...
[00:45:03]
WE'RE GOING DOWN THIS ROAD ABOUT, YOU KNOW, WHAT'S A LIGHTED SIGN AND DO WE WANT THEM AND ALL THAT KIND OF THING.AND IT'S LIKE, OKAY, SO IF WE'RE NOT GOING TO CHANGE THE ORDINANCE, THEN WE DON'T NEED TO HAVE ANY MORE DISCUSSION.
I MEAN, WHAT DOES EVERYBODY ELSE THINK? I DON'T KNOW.
I DON'T THINK THEY SHOULD ELECTRONIC SIGN.
IF YOU LOOK AT SECTION 153.04, ITEMS 8 AND 9 ADDRESS THE LIGHTING.
IT SAYS, SECTION 8 SAYS, SIGNS WHICH ARE, THESE ARE PROHIBITED, PROHIBITED SIGNS.
NUMBER 8 IS SIGNS WHICH ARE ILLUMINATED WITH LIGHTS WHICH CAUSE GLARE INTO OR UPON THE SURROUNDING AREA OR ANY PROPERTY USED FOR RESIDENTIAL PURPOSES OR WHICH DISTRACT OPERATORS OF VEHICLES OR PEDESTRIANS ON A PUBLIC RIGHT-OF-WAY.
SIGNS WHICH CONTAIN REFLECTORS OR LIGHTS OR ILLUMINATIONS THAT FLASH, MOVE, ROTATE, SCINTILLATE, BLINK, FLICKER, VARY IN INTENSITY OR COLOR, OR USE INTERMITTENT ELECTRICAL PULSATION.
YEAH, I JUST DON'T THINK, I MEAN, DO WE WANT TO, IF THE CHURCH ASKS FOR A VARIANCE, IS THAT SOMETHING THAT WE WOULD WANT TO APPROVE OR NO? I DON'T KNOW.
WE'D HAVE TO SEE WHAT THEY'RE WANTING.
DOES THE PROCESS GO BEFORE THE CITY COUNCIL? THE ZBA.
WHAT IS THE ZBA? THE ZARIAN BOARD OF ADJUSTMENTS.
AND THEN THEY MAKE THE DECISION.
IT DOESN'T ACTUALLY GO TO COUNCIL.
WHO DOES THE ZBA? ANDREW ELLISON'S THE CHAIR OF THAT.
SO WHAT DO YOU ALL THINK? WE'VE SORT OF DOMINATED OVER HERE.
FIRST OF ALL, WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT LIGHTED VERSUS LIT, THE LIGHTED SIGN IS SHINING LIGHT ON THE SIGN, AND THE LIT SIGN IS SHINING LIGHT, SCATTERING IT BACK INTO THE ATMOSPHERE, WHICH GOES BACK TO YOUR DARK SKIES VERSUS SNOW.
MANY CITIES REQUIRE LIGHT POLES TO POINT DOWN, NOT JUST ANYWHERE.
SO IN OUR MONUMENT SIGNS, WHICH COULD INCLUDE YOU MIGHT JUST LIGHT UP THE NUMBERS ON YOUR HOUSE.
SOME PEOPLE DO THAT OUT AT THE CURB.
AND SHOULD THERE BE COMMERCIAL, THEY HAVE THE OPTION OF USING...
MONUMENT SIGNAGE AND THINGS LIKE THAT SO CAN FIND THEM.
SO THAT IS ADDRESSED FOR THE FUTURE WITH A MONUMENT SIDE, TYPE SIDE, OR A SIGN WHERE THE LIGHT SHINES DOWN ON IT.
AND AS FOR THE ONE INSTANCE BEING THE CHURCH WHO WOULD LIKE TO HAVE A LIT SIGN, AGAIN, ZBA IS THERE.
ELECTRONIC SIGN WHICH IS DIFFERENT FROM A LIT SIGN RIGHT AND AN ELECTRONIC SIDE ZBA IS THERE ANYTIME THEY WANT TO MAKE A PRESENTATION SO OKAY I THINK THINGS ARE COVERED FOR A WHILE YEAH I MEAN I THINK THE LANGUAGE YOU READ I MEAN THAT I THINK IN MY MIND TAKES CARE OF EVERYTHING YES, AND IT DOES, I MEAN, AND THIS IS WHERE IT HAS VISIBLE MOVING, REVOLVING, ROTATING PARTS.
OKAY? I MEAN, THAT'S, I MEAN, YOU KNOW, THE DIFFERENCE, I'M JUST SAYING THAT THE DIFFERENCE IS, IS THAT WHAT WE HAVE IN THE PAST REQUIRES SOME KIND OF MECHANICAL MOVING PIECE.
NOW WE HAVE ELECTRONICALLY MOVING PIECES.
BUT THEY'RE DOING THE SAME THING.
OKAY? SO WHETHER, TO ME, WHETHER IT'S LIT FROM BEHIND OR LIT FROM IN FRONT, YOU KNOW, THIS IS THE NUMBER 12 OR WHATEVER IS THE THING THAT BASICALLY SAYS WHAT IT IS THAT'S AN ANNOYANCE.
OKAY? SO, OKAY, SO WITH THAT, OKAY, CAN WE SAY IT, RAJIV? I THINK WE CAN DEFINE THAT LIE BEING...
[00:50:22]
I JUST ON THE SECOND FLOOR THAT PERSON WAS COMPLAINING, YOU KNOW, I CAN SEE IT FROM THE BEDROOM, IT'S JUST BOTHERING ME.THAT'S ALSO ADDRESSED IN SECTION 155.051.
PEOPLE OVER HERE, WHEN THEY OPEN UP, DON'T THEY LIGHT UP THEIR AREA OVER THERE? AND THEN SOUTHWARK IS ALREADY LIT, BUT NOT TOWARD THE ROAD.
THE OTHER THING I WANT TO TALK ABOUT IS ALL THESE SIGNS FOR THE DEVELOPMENTS.
WHAT IF THE MAYOR OR WHOEVER OWNS ANY OF THOSE SIGNS? YOU GUYS DON'T HAVE ANYBODY COMING OUT DURING THE NIGHT TO CHECK THEM, DO YOU? THEY MAINTAIN THOSE.
IT WOULD HAVE TO BE A LICENSE THAT SOMEBODY NOTICES AND SAYS, OH, THAT'S, YOU KNOW, SHINING BRIGHT IN MY EYES.
MERCEDES THAT CAME AROUND THE CORNER AND, YOU KNOW, PUT IT IN FRONT OF MY EYES.
DO WE HAVE CONSENSUS? OKAY, SO I GUESS WITH ALL OF THIS DISCUSSION, WHICH HAS ALL BEEN NICE, I THINK WE NEED TO DETERMINE WHETHER OR NOT WE WANT TO TAKE ANY ACTION OR IF WE JUST WANT TO SAY LEAVE IT ALONE.
NOT, YOU KNOW, MAKE ZBA DEAL WITH IT IF WE HAVE TO.
MR. CHAIR, I DO WANT TO CLARIFY, I THINK YOU'LL SPEND A LOT OF TIME SPECIFICALLY ON ONE ASPECT OF THE SIGN ORDINANCE.
MY UNDERSTANDING FROM CITY COUNCIL IS THEY REALLY WANTED YOU TO TAKE A COMPREHENSIVE LOOK AT THE ENTIRE SIGN ORDINANCE AND TO SEE IF THERE WAS ANYTHING THAT NEEDED TO BE CHANGED TO GET IT INTO THE 21ST CENTURY.
I THINK THE EXISTING LANGUAGE TAKES CARE, I MEAN, YOU KNOW, KEEPS IT GENERAL AND IT ALREADY COVERS ALL THE VARIATIONS OF WHAT ELECTRONIC SIGNS ARE.
THROUGH THE FLASHING AND YOU KNOW CHANGING AND ALL THAT.
WAS THERE A PARTICULAR SECTION OF THE SIGN ORDINANCE THAT THE CITY COUNCIL HAD AGITA OVER OR WAS IT JUST SAYING JUST REVISIT THE WHOLE THING? THIS WAS ONE OF THE COMPONENTS.
MAYOR DO YOU WANT TO SPEAK TO ANY OF THE OTHER ISSUES THAT YOU'RE AWARE OF IN THERE? AND THE CITY IS LOOKING AT A LOT OF THE OLD ORDINANCES TO BRING THEM FORWARD.
DO THEY STILL MEET OUR NEEDS? DO WE STILL NEED THEM? SHOULD THEY BE UPDATED? IT'S LIKE WHEN CHIEF MILLER WAS HERE, AND THE ORDINANCE HE WAS TALKING ABOUT IS LIKE 201.
THERE ARE A LOT OF THE OLD ORDINANCES THAT HAVE LANGUAGE IN THEM.
I THINK WE'VE GOT ONE THAT REQUIRES BUILDERS TO FAX.
EVERYTHING TO CITY HALL NO WE'VE GOT TO UPDATE AND GET CURRENT ON A LOT OF THEM SHOULD WE TAKE ONE FINAL LIKE WE'LL TAKE ONE MORE MEETING TO SAY EVERYBODY READ THROUGH THE CURRENT ORDINANCE AND MAKE SURE THERE'S NOTHING LIKE ACCESS I MEAN FAX IS A BAD EXAM OR DO WE JUST WANT TO SAY I'M TOTALLY FINE WITH NOT CHANGING THE ORDINANCE AND THE THINGS THAT GARY SHARED BUT IN THE SPIRIT OF WHAT THEY ASKED US TO DO, WE HAVE JUST FOCUSED ON ONE PIECE OF IT.
SHOULD WE TAKE ONE MORE MEETING AND ACTUALLY EVERYBODY REREAD THE ORDINANCE AND COME TO AGREEMENT THAT WE'RE GOOD? OR MAYBE EVERYBODY ELSE HAS ALREADY DONE THAT AND I'M THE ONLY ONE WHO HASN'T READ THE ORDINANCE.
I KNOW THAT I'VE READ IT IN THE PAST.
ARE WE LOOKING TO FIX A PROBLEM THAT DOESN'T EXIST?
[00:55:02]
ARE WE TRYING TO UPDATE THE ORDINANCE BECAUSE WE DO NEED TO BRING IT INTO THE 21ST CENTURY AND WE NEED TO EXPAND UPON BACKLIGHT AND FRONTLIGHT AND STUFF LIKE THAT? OR DO WE JUST SAY, YEAH, IT'S GOOD ENOUGH, AND WE'LL HANDLE SOME EXCEPTIONS THAT WE GET ONCE EVERY YEAR OR TWO WITH A, YOU KNOW.I MEAN, YOU KNOW, SO I GUESS THAT'S KIND OF BEEN MY QUESTION ABOUT THIS WHOLE THING AND WHY I'VE KIND OF BEEN A LITTLE BIT OF A, YOU KNOW, TRYING TO DRAG THIS OUT OF EVERYONE BECAUSE I'M TRYING TO FIGURE OUT DO WE NEED TO DO ANYTHING AND WHY ARE WE DOING IT? IF WE DO, WHY ARE WE DOING IT? I'M NOT SURE THIS IS ONE OF THE ORDINANCES THAT ACTUALLY NEEDS TO BE CHANGED PERSONALLY.
ANY OTHER CONCERNS WITH THE SACRED CUP IF CITY COUNCIL AND, MR. CHAIR, I WILL JUST GIVE AN UPDATE.
FOR THOSE OF YOU WHO ARE UNAWARE, I SHARED AN ELECTIONEERING GUIDANCE DOCUMENT.
SO YOUR RECOMMENDATION DID GO TO CITY COUNCIL.
THEY TWEAKED IT JUST A LITTLE BIT, BUT IT HAS BEEN ADOPTED AS AN ORDINANCE AS OF APRIL THE 21ST, AND IT WENT INTO EFFECT MAY THE 6TH.
SO I'LL GIVE YOU ALL EACH A COPY OF THIS JUST SO YOU CAN SEE WHAT YOUR RECOMMENDATION ENDED UP IN.
YEAH, SO, YOU KNOW, THIS IS GETTING BACK TO...
ARE WE BEING DIRECTED TO REWRITE IT, OR HAVE WE HAD ENOUGH DISCUSSION ABOUT IT TO BASICALLY SAY, IT'S GOOD ENOUGH, AND, YOU KNOW, WHY DO WE NEED TO REWRITE IT? I THINK WE'RE BEING ASKED TO LOOK AT IT BECAUSE OF THE REQUEST FROM THE CHURCH SPECIFIC.
I MEAN, I DON'T WANT TO SPEAK FOR, I WASN'T AT THAT CITY COUNCIL MEETING, SO I DON'T WANT TO SPEAK FOR THEM.
IF WE ONLY HAVE ONE ENTITY THAT HAS AN ISSUE, AND WHILE I'M CERTAINLY SENSITIVE TO THEIR DEED AND THAT IT'S THEIR NON-PROFIT, ETC., I DON'T KNOW THAT WE NEED TO REDO THE ENTIRE ORDINANCE FOR ONE ENTITY.
IT'S THE ONLY ENTITY THAT HAS A SIGN LIKE THAT, CORRECT? THE CHURCH? DO WE HAVE ANY OTHER PLACES IN PARKER THAT, I MEAN, I KNOW WE DON'T ALLOW THEM, BUT HAVE WE HAD ANYBODY PUT UP A SIGN? WE SIGNED BEFORE WHERE YOU PUT THE LETTERS IN AND SPELL, YOU KNOW, SPELL OUT WHATEVER YOU WANT AND IT WAS LIT.
BUT WE DON'T HAVE AN INSTANCE OF VIOLATIONS WITHIN PARKER OF PEOPLE TRYING TO PUT UP A SIGN THAT'S NOT ALLOWED? THERE IS.
OR IS IT A REQUEST TO DO SO OUTSIDE OF THE CHURCH? OKAY.
HAS THE CHURCH BEEN BACK IN CONTACT REQUESTING A MEETING? BECAUSE THE LAST I RECALL THEY WERE...
THEY HAD ASKED FOR A VARIANCE.
BECAUSE THE LAST I REMEMBER THEY WERE...
I WANT TO MAKE SURE THEY WEREN'T WAITING FOR US.
SO WHEN IT COMES BEFORE THE ZONING ZBA, DOES THE PUBLIC HAVE A CHANCE TO PROVIDE INPUT? YES, THAT'S A...
SO, YOU KNOW, I THINK THAT IS THE PROPER WAY TO HANDLE SOMETHING LIKE THIS BECAUSE ANY NEIGHBOR...
IF THEY DON'T WANT THAT, MY NEXT DOOR, LIKE, YOU KNOW, IF RUSSELL WANTS TO PUT A SIGN AND HE LIVES NEXT TO ME, I MAY NOT LIKE THAT.
I DON'T WANT TO BE ABLE TO VOICE MY OPINION.
SO I THINK THAT'S THE PROPER WAY TO DO IT.
INSTEAD OF CHANGING OUR LAWS...
TO ACCOMMODATE SOMETHING SPECIAL.
RIGHT NOW THE VARIANCE REQUEST IS $600, CORRECT, GARY?
[01:00:05]
OH, OKAY.AND THAT COST COVERS THE MAILINGS FOR THE 200-FOOT DISTANCE THAT WE HAVE TO DO.
IT ALSO COVERS THE REQUIRED NOTIFICATION THAT WE HAVE TO PLACE.
I THINK RIGHT NOW IT'S IN THE DALLAS MORNING NEWS, WHICH IS QUITE STEEP FOR A SMALL NOTIFICATION, LEGAL NOTIFICATION.
I DO THINK THAT WE SHOULD BE, IF THE CITY AT SOME POINT DECIDES TO IMPLEMENT MORE COMMERCIAL AT THAT POINT IN TIME, THEN I DO BELIEVE THIS ORDINANCE SHOULD BE REVISITED.
AND I'M CERTAINLY SENSITIVE TO THE CHURCH AND ALL OF THAT, BUT THEY DO HAVE AN OPTION TODAY.
GARY, I HAVE ANOTHER QUESTION.
PARKER LAKE ESTATES OVER THERE, THEY HAD A MEETING OR SALE OVER THE WEEKEND.
BUT THEY HAD PUT UP ONE OF THOSE BALLOON TYPE SIGNS.
IT WAS PROBABLY 125 FEET UP IN THE AIR.
WAS THAT ALLOWED? I DON'T THINK THAT'S GOING TO BE ALLOWED ACCORDING TO THE ONES THAT HAVE MECHANICAL OR OTHER MOVING PARTS.
HOW ABOUT THE AIRPLANES? SOMETIMES THE AIRPLANES HAVE THAT KIND OF STUFF TOO.
YOU HELP ME CATCH THEM, WE'LL GO GET THEM.
DO YOU ALL REMEMBER WHEN ALL THE BUILDERS HAD ALL THEIR SIGNS GOING OUT ON THE WEEKENDS? BECAUSE THERE WAS NO ONE TO ENFORCE, AND THAT WAS JUST KIND OF THE WAY IT WAS.
AND THE CITY SAID, THAT'S FINE, YOU KNOW.
AND SO, YOU KNOW, YOU JUST HAVE A WAY TO HANDLE IT, I SUPPOSE.
I DON'T KNOW WHAT THEY DO ANYMORE.
WE'VE GOT SOME OTHER THINGS THAT WE'RE PUTTING IN PLACE, TOO.
WE'RE COMING IN ON WEEKENDS ON A NORMAL SCHEDULE.
SO YOU'RE GOING TO CATCH RUSSELL'S HOUSE? YEAH, WE'RE GOING TO CATCH RUSSELL'S HOUSE.
YEAH, DON'T DRIVE BY MY HOUSE.
BACK THEN WHEN WE WERE DOING THAT, THERE WAS A TRAFFIC HAZARD BECAUSE THEY'D STOP ON THE ROAD AND PICK UP ALL THE SIGNS THAT THEY HAD TO PICK UP.
SO IT WAS A PROFESSIONAL OPERATION THEY WERE DOING, SO I MEAN, NOW WE DON'T EMPLOY THAT MANY PEOPLE.
AND WE COULD, YOU KNOW, DO THE SAME THING WITH ELECTRONIC SIGNS THAT JUST KIND OF POP UP OVER THE WEEKEND.
I THINK TODAY, DON'T WE JUST HAVE THE PROPERTY THAT'S AT LUCAS AND LEWIS THAT'S ZONED COMMERCIAL AND IT'S GOT LIMITED USE OUTSIDE OF SOUTH FORK? THAT'S A PD, BUT IT'S COMMERCIAL, YES.
BUT THAT'S THE ONLY ONE THAT ZONE IT'S VERY SPECIFIC IN WHAT THEY CAN DO THERE YES YEAH BUT I THOUGHT SOUTH FORK WE DON'T HAVE ANY ZONED COMMERCIAL LAND IS THAT ACCURATE WE HAVE NO ZONING PERIOD RIGHT IT'S ALL IT WOULD ALL BE PD YEAH AND PD CAN BE CUSTOMIZED TO COUNCIL'S DESIRE YEAH OKAY WE ARE WE JUST WE SIMPLY DON'T HAVE A NEED TO DO THAT TO PROVIDE FOR COMMERCIAL SIGNAGE RIGHT NOW OKAY I'D LIKE TO GET THIS WRAPPED UP THEN YEAH OKAY BEAT THIS HORSE SO TO SPEAK SO WHAT I WOULD LIKE TO DO IS I WOULD LIKE TO HAVE SOMEONE MAKE A MOTION THAT WE RECOMMEND THE COUNCIL WITH NO CHANGES BEING MADE AND THEN GET EVERYBODY TO VOTE ON IT SO I'LL MAKE A MOTION THAT PLANNING AND ZONING IS LOOKED AT THE CITY ORDINANCE FOR LIGHTING AND BELIEVE THAT AS CURRENTLY WRITTEN, IT DOES NOT NEED TO BE MODERNIZED AT THIS TIME. AND WE WOULD RECOMMEND THAT IT BE BROUGHT BACK TO P&Z AT A POINT IN TIME THAT THE CITY DECIDED TO MOVE FORWARD WITH BROADER COMMERCIAL ACTIVITIES WITHIN THE CITY LIMITS. I'LL SECOND THAT. OKAY, WE HAVE A MOTION, WE HAVE A SECOND. DOES EVERYONE
[01:05:01]
UNDERSTAND THAT? OKAY, ALL IN FAVOR? OKAY, OPPOSED? OKAY, WE'LL GO WITH THAT FOR NOW. THANK YOU. THANK YOU EVERYONE FOR THE EXCITING DISCUSSION THIS EVENING. AND NOW WE ARE DOWN TO ROUTINE ITEMS. DO WE HAVE ANY ROUTINE ITEMS, MR. MANTON? OH, YOU DIDN'T HAVE IT ON? WELL, NO, MR. CHAIRMAN, THERE ARE NO ROUTINE ITEMS FOR YOU TONIGHT. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. OKAY, ANY FUTURE AGENDA ITEMS WE SHOULD KNOW ABOUT? THAT'S MORE PLOTS COMING. LIKE THE ONE THAT DIDN'T MAKE IT HERE TONIGHT? DIDN'T MAKE IT TONIGHT. OKAY. OKAY. WITH THAT, I SEE THAT IT IS 6.07 P.M. AND WE ARE CALLING THIS ADJOURNED.* This transcript was compiled from uncorrected Closed Captioning.